[plt-scheme] Re: Programming for non-programmers

From: Richard Cleis (rcleis at mac.com)
Date: Sat Oct 16 23:10:58 EDT 2004

Academia hasn't failed training CS'ers.  However, I believe this 
education is often wasted since programmers in large companies are 
often managed by those who don't understand that software can be much 
more valuable than lines of code created merely to implement 
specifications written by engineers or accountants with primitive 
impressions of the potential of computers.

As for your comment, "their managers should be included"... The most 
creative programmers  avoid management, creating a vacuum which is 
filled by ordinary programmers who don't want to be included in 
continued education; they are satisfied being managers.  Furthermore, 
software has become so necessary in technology that programmers often 
work for people who are not (and never have been) programmers.  It is 
nearly impossible to convince such people that software can be much 
more useful if we let 'new' concepts take flight.

It seems that the broadening of The Computer Field (into Computer 
Engineering, Software Designers, etc) is overshadowing the value of 
true Computer Science applied in typical industry.  A few  brilliant 
CSers have little chance of affecting the practices of armies of 
engineers who merely 'know how to write code.'

Note: my observations are based on 20 years of experience in a few 
companies; I fully realize that more creative environments exist.  In 
case you find my thoughts depressing: I am having a blast with scheme 
(my superiors let me do what I want, even though they don't understand 


On Oct 16, 2004, at 2:21 PM, Matthias Felleisen wrote:

> On Oct 16, 2004, at 1:35 PM, Richard Cleis wrote:
>> This is part of what I meant by 'The Industry Needing Training.'  I 
>> am applying self criticism here, by the way; I am part of The 
>> Industry that needs training.
> What kind of training and can we (academia) help you if we failed you 
> before?
> As I have mentioned before, I have been an advocate of continued 
> education for CSers. They, like doctors, should have yearly training 
> sessions, but of course their managers should be included. -- Matthias

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