Dear All<div> I mostly lurk on this list, and have been weighing whether to say something or not in this thread. But reading Anne's post and the reactions to it, I can no longer keep silent.</div><div><br></div><div> <div>I use a lot of humor in my class. But I try to remember that:</div><div><br></div><div>* When the ones in power making fun of themselves at their own expense that's funny.</div><div>* When the ones in power make fun of the less powerful, that's bullying.</div> </div><div><br></div><div>And there is no question where the power dynamic is in a CS classroom in terms of gender. If you don't see it, perhaps you may like to look more deeply, and listen more carefully. Anne Mulhern has hit the nail on the head about sexism, how to gague it and how not to gauge it. A few ineffective ways:</div> <div><br></div><div>* Women participated, so it must be ok.</div><div>* I asked one woman and she said it was fine, so it must be ok.</div><div>* Youth see it differently from us old folks, so don't pay any attention to the old fogie out of touch whiners.</div> <div><br></div><div>You can substitute any group that is the target of pervasive discrimination in place of "women" here.</div><div><br></div><div>I get the sense that people are not listening to Anne's voice---and instead, are using all kinds of ways to convince themselves that they are right, because they really, really want to be. </div> <div><br></div><div>And to the extent that folks are not listening, so much the worse for them, and for the cause of the outstanding ideas about programming, and the teaching of programming that come from this community.</div> <div><br></div><div>I typically only lurk on this list, and really hestitated to speak up. What motivated me, finally to post, is that there is a larger point here that I've been holding inside for a while. </div> <div><br></div><div>I really think this community has a lot to offer to the rest of the field of Computer Science. But, it is a shame that it seems to me to have a "blind spot" when it comes to how those outside the community perceive it. </div> <div><br></div><div>This community is "right" about a lot of things----a better way to write code, a better way to teach programming, a better way to teach design. However, my own perception---and it is one shared by colleagues that I've tried to share about the HTDP/HTDC/Racket/PBD, etc. community with----is that the self-congratulatory attitude of this community about being "right" about everything can be quite off-putting. </div> <div><br></div><div>Sometimes when you insist so much on being "right" about everything, all you get to be is "right". Some of the things you have to sacrifice---not in the sense of giving up completely, but in the sense of being attenuated---sometimes severely:</div> <div>* effectiveness</div><div>* influence</div><div>* making a difference.</div><div><br></div><div>I see that reflected in this discussion, and with humility and respect, I would invite some critical self-reflection on that point.</div> <div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Phill Conrad</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Dec 25, 2012 at 9:44 AM, mulhern <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:mulhern@cs.wisc.edu" target="_blank">mulhern@cs.wisc.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Matthias,<br> <br> It is probably worth less than you suppose.<br> <br> Unfortunately, women don't always act as good barometers of "skeaziness".<br> <br> When a woman is asked whether something is sexist or not the implicit question is more like:<br> <br> "Are you going to be one of those irritating women who are always whining about sexism or are you going to be a 'good sport' so that we go on liking you?"<br> <br> That question is not identical to:<br> <br> "Is this sexist or not?"<br> <br> and is likely not to get the same distribution of answers from women.<br> <br> I don't put such a high value on being liked as most people --- but I don't actually enjoy finding myself in a roomful of hostile people,<br> especially ones I've been working with pleasantly up until two minutes or so ago.<br> I have certainly felt the pressure to go along; I'm surely actually sociable people feel it a lot more.<br> And if you do speak up every time that it's warranted you'll just turn into Noam Chomsky and never get to your real work, an important point of Paul Graham's.<br> <br> In short, that various people on the list noticed that there was something off about the "he dates " part of the video, i.e.,<br> 1) it's not actually funny, unless you work really hard, and then it's just funny in a sad kind of way<br> 2) it's not actually in the spirit of the Dos Equis ads<br> 3) it comes across as significantly more sexist than the Dos Equis ads do themselves<br> is a _strong_ indicator that others will. And that your female students didn't say anything means surprisingly little.<br> <br> Mark Engelberg says that being designed by students the ad is more likely to appeal to students, who after all are the ones being advertised to. The implication<br> seems to be that the opinion of the people on the list, who are mostly not students, is hardly relevant. If this were a question merely of effectiveness that might be the case.<br> But it isn't. The recent fracas about the Virgin Mobile ads makes that point pretty clear. Veiled jokes about rape may have been just right for the potential<br> buyers of Virgin Mobile services (I wouldn't know), but the audience for those ads is much larger than the potential buyers.<br> <br> The more successful "Realm of Racket" is, and of course we all hope for its success, the more eyes will happen upon the video and the more likely the video is to get its 15 minutes of (in)fame, which is hardly desirable.<br> <span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br> - mulhern<br> </font></span><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><br> <br> <br> <br> On Dec 21, 2012, at 2:04 PM, Matthias Felleisen wrote:<br> <br> ><br> > Thank you all for your feedback.<br> ><br> > FWIW three of the eight student authors are girls,<br> > and all of them participated in every step of the<br> > creation of the video, from the very inception, the<br> > story writing, and the production process. None of<br> > them had any objections; to the contrary, they found<br> > it hilarious and fitting with the student culture.<br> > [Naturally a girl had to explain to me what the meme<br> > was. No TV ads in my neck of the woods.]<br> ><br> > I know y'all are eagerly awaiting the next 'commercial'<br> > and it is on its way.<br> ><br> > Happy Holidays.<br> ><br> ><br> > _____________________<br> > PLT Educators list:<br> > <a href="http://lists.racket-lang.org/plt-edu" target="_blank">http://lists.racket-lang.org/plt-edu</a><br> <br> <br> _____________________<br> PLT Educators list:<br> <a href="http://lists.racket-lang.org/plt-edu" target="_blank">http://lists.racket-lang.org/plt-edu</a><br> </div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br>-- <br>Phill Conrad, Lecturer (SOE)*, Dept. of Computer Science<br>University of California, Santa Barbara<br>Joint Appointment: College of Creative Studies (<a href="http://www.ccs.ucsb.edu" target="_blank">www.ccs.ucsb.edu</a>)<br> <a href="mailto:pconrad@cs.ucsb.edu" target="_blank">pconrad@cs.ucsb.edu</a>, <a href="http://www.cs.ucsb.edu/~pconrad" target="_blank">www.cs.ucsb.edu/~pconrad</a><br>-----<br>*SOE: a UC teaching faculty appointment, corresponding in rank and job security to a tenured associate professor </div>