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<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=563065018-23082010><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2 face=Arial>As one of the older ones on this list let me tell me my
experience.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=563065018-23082010><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2 face=Arial></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=563065018-23082010><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2 face=Arial>My first job was as a scientific researcher in physics at the
university of Amsterdam. (Netherlands) Almost complete freedom. Even before
entering this job I had, by self study, become a group expert on
programming (assembler and Fortran, though) In that time the university of
Amsterdam did not yet have a computer science curriculum.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=563065018-23082010><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2 face=Arial></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=563065018-23082010><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2 face=Arial>My second job was as a consultant and developer of software in
a department of the same university mainly servicing gamma sciences. After a
short period I was appointed as head of the software development. It took
me a few weeks to convince my group of my capacities and that they
could benefit from it. Almost complete freedom. My designs were adopted
without hardly any amendments. I even got somewhat popular and was chosen as the
president of the general assembly of the department (the director of the
department could overrun, of course, but I can't remember he ever
did.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=563065018-23082010><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2 face=Arial></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=563065018-23082010><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2 face=Arial>My third and last job was as a senior consultant and
teacher at a facility centre I had been using in the two previous jobs. As
I found out later, the job was created because the board and the director of the
centre were not satisfied with the level of support for the costumers. Of course
this was not or not easily accepted by my colleagues, my direct supervisor
included. Nevertheless I had almost complete freedom, because I was protected by
the board and the director. I even had some popularity such as to be chosen as
chairman of the works council. After about two decades in this job (which was in
fact my hobby) shortly after each other two new directors were appointed. They
were of another kind. They had no knowledge of computers nor of programming.
They were managers pure sang, without substantial knowledge. After torpedoing
three ideas of the last manager, I was isolated from the costumers (because of
new instructions for the telephone operators) and pestered away (at
the age of 50 years, with a supplement to my pension, of course). Now I have to
pay my hobby by myself. When later I came back to collect my personal
belongings, they appeared to have been destroyed, the evidence of malpractices
included. Also included about 50 dissertations in which my assistance was
acknowledged.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=563065018-23082010><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2 face=Arial></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=563065018-23082010><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2 face=Arial>Conclusions</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=563065018-23082010><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2 face=Arial>1</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=563065018-23082010><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2 face=Arial>When applying for a job, have interviews not only with your
future bosses, but as important, if not even more important, with your future
colleagues. Without the latter it is difficult to make an estimate of the
culture of the organization. The organization is testing you, but as an
applicant you should test the organization even harder. This is easily said, but
in practice, you may need a job in order to survive and feed your family. In a
market with more applicants than jobs, it may be difficult to avoid being levied
by this kind of blackmail on you.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=563065018-23082010><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2 face=Arial>2</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=563065018-23082010><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2 face=Arial>Although loosing my job was very hard, I have no regrets
that I held on to my principles. Make sure that when you look into a
mirror, you don't have to be ashamed of yourself. It may have a high price,
though. But for me loosing my pride is an even higher price.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=563065018-23082010><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2 face=Arial></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=563065018-23082010><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2 face=Arial>I don't feel comfortable to tell this personal story, but
after 14 years of retirement, I can manage it.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=563065018-23082010><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2 face=Arial></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=563065018-23082010><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2 face=Arial>Jos</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=563065018-23082010><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2 face=Arial></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><FONT color=#0000ff size=2
face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=563065018-23082010><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2 face=Arial></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=563065018-23082010><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2 face=Arial></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=563065018-23082010><FONT color=#0000ff
size=2 face=Arial></FONT></SPAN> </DIV><BR>
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<FONT size=2 face=Tahoma><B>From:</B> users-bounces@racket-lang.org
[mailto:users-bounces@racket-lang.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Neil Van
Dyke<BR><B>Sent:</B> 23 August 2010 19:24<BR><B>To:</B> projanen<BR><B>Cc:</B>
users@racket-lang.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [racket] Question about the
double submit bug 'in the wild'<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>projanen wrote at 08/20/2010 09:09 PM:<BR><SPAN
style="COLOR: black">
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><SPAN style="COLOR: black">Following Neil's good
advice, it's certainly an issue I'll bring up in any future interviews, but
the business types won't like it.</SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE><BR></SPAN>Neil V.'s
advice is to be careful not to torpedo an interview unless one intends to.
:) Any student who sees this should also remember that most every
organization -- be it industry, academic, government, military -- will need
its employees/members to ultimately bow to the needs and directives of the
organization and the chain of command. Academia has Academic Freedom,
military has Integrity, politics has Plausible Deniability... but at the end
of the day they also need you to get something done. That something, in
CS/software, is often an engineering artifact, but not necessarily the holy
grail perfect gem of engineering. So if you make the interviewer think
that you misunderstand the dynamic, then they might affectionately ruffle your
hair like a preciously naive youngster and hire you anyway, or they might have
to figure out whether you're a rigorous engineer or a messiah/morale problem
waiting to happen. :)<BR><BR>If you want to intentionally torpedo things...
One company I was thinking of starting, years ago, when talking with
prospective CEOs, I would intentionally mention not only "don't be evil" but
also the conditions under which I would poison-pill the company and our
operations (related to privacy and civil liberties, since we were in a
sensitive space). Even the most smooth-talking alum of Harvard Business
School will choke briefly, if not turn a shade of white or green, at the
thought. So far, the only context I've found that you can have this
luxury of all principles foremost is when starting your own company and
telling everyone before they come onboard. Everywhere else, you inherit
their realities, and (with few exceptions) those realities trump the perfect
gem of engineering and other ideal pursuits you might have.<BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">I have found much more satisfaction by building
custom applications for in-house use. My favorite job was being the
only C.S. major in a company of other engineers. We each had our
specialty, were truly appreciated for it, and were expected to deliver our
best. From my experience, in-house software prioritizes quality over
marketing and even over economy if you're
fortunate.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Sounds like a good situation to be in.
Just, if one finds onesself a big fish in a little pond in one's area (CS or
software), I think one should use the Internet to seek out a concentration of
bigger or equally big fish, and find a way to keep learning from
them.<BR><BR>Very early in my career, I had my own software consultancy.
I decided to leave it to go work for a hardcore engineering company who did
tools for mission/life-critical systems. Most everyone there had more
experience than me, and my boss was a German PhD who might've thought that
anyone who wasn't a German PhD was not as good. I worked like crazy, and
learned a lot through challenges and osmosis.<BR><BR>
<DIV class=moz-signature>-- <BR><A class=moz-txt-link-freetext
href="http://www.neilvandyke.org/">http://www.neilvandyke.org/</A>
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