<html><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "> Fair enough: I certainly didn't mean to suggest that the groups were mutually exclusive!<div><br></div><div>Getting back to the topic of this thread (or at least I hope so): my two basic points were</div><div><br></div><div>1) It's not enough to just teach "programming", it's important that students be exposed to computing at a deeper level.</div><div><br></div><div>and</div><div><br></div><div>2) The marketplace is currently providing something of a disincentive for studying theory (or even Scheme). This won't change until the people making hiring decisions are persuaded that it is in their interest to hire people with a good grounding in theory, even at the expense of some specialist knowledge.</div><div><br></div><div>Unfortunately, it's hard to see this happening in a world dominated by contracting, and especially fixed cost contracts. </div><div><div> <span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><br class="khtml-block-placeholder"></div><div>"In the human mind, one-sidedness has </div><div>always been the rule and many-sidedness the</div><div> exception. Hence, even in revolutions of </div><div>thought, one part of the truth usually sets while</div><div> another rises."</div><div>--John Stuart Mill</div><div><br></div><div><div><a href="http://www.gwoodhouse.com">http://www.gwoodhouse.com</a></div><div><a href="http://GregWoodhouse.ImageKind.com">http://GregWoodhouse.ImageKind.com</a></div><div><br></div></div><div><br class="khtml-block-placeholder"></div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></span> </div><br><div><div>On Oct 17, 2008, at 1:44 PM, Grant Rettke wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">On Fri, Oct 17, 2008 at 3:03 PM, Woodhouse Gregory</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><<a href="mailto:gregory.woodhouse@gmail.com">gregory.woodhouse@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div> <blockquote type="cite"><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">A theme that comes up time and again is that there are a few developers</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">whose code always seems to work and who are able to solve problems that</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">would lead most everyone else to throw up their hands and say "it's</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">impossible". Oddly, these are not the same developers as those that know</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Java EE backwards and forwards and seemingly can do anything with WebLogic</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">or Oracle.</div> </blockquote><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">What about developers who code well that are also JEE experts?!</div> </blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>