[plt-scheme] Perplexed Programmers

I pointed out some reasons why the situation concerning the programming
competence/quality in Europe/France seems to be blocked by the way the
contry/society got organized. I said: 

>> So, sorry for some impoliteness, but a person who claimed that the  
>> "guilt"
>> is individual, that teachers, programmers, managers, etc. are bad  
>> workers,
>> and such an abstract monster as "the system" doesn't really exist  in 
>> this
>> context, said a sheer nonsense. We are not in XVIII century anymore.

Matthias Felleisen answered: 

> This was me. And if you don't start at the individual level, you will
> never make progress. That's what they call productivity and that's what
> Maggie meant when she said "there is no such thing as society." Of  course
> she exaggerated to make her point but it is a valid point. Those who
> always try to shelter the individual from individual responsibility are
> doing the society a huge disfavor.

I don't know who said that we shouldn't start at individual level, or
who "always" tries to shelter the individual from his responsibility.
Certainly not me. If you want to insinuate such things, find a better
target. We try to do our best as comp. sci. teachers, but the results
are diluted. I think simply that the monster called "system" has some
objective reality, that's all what I implied. 

Perhaps you have heard about XX century systems, this time political,
usually considered criminal. If you really think that it was/is enough to
find the individuals who directly committed some war crimes and shoot them
and this would cure the situation, I wish you good luck. There are still
some to work upon. 

> I am not surprised to get such nonsense coming from a French person.

 -- Matthias 

Somebody complained that this discussion lowered a little its high level.
You have just made a significant step in the wrong direction. Some people
here might remember this statement for a long time. I withdraw from further
discussion, I prefer to think of you as an excellent researcher and
teacher, rather than as aggressive besserwisser. 

Jerzy Karczmarczuk (Polish)