Vincent's proposal wasn't "let's treat car as first", his proposal was "let's export it in racket/base". If we don't like first/rest, we should have a proposal to remove them from #lang racket... right? Otherwise, let's put them in racket/base. They're very simple names for very, very common operations. I use them all the time, and it makes me write different code in racket/base than in racket when I can't get them. I would like to either always have them, or be convinced of why I should never have them. <div class="gmail_extra"> <div>Carl Eastlund</div> <div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 2:40 PM, Jay McCarthy <<a href="mailto:jay.mccarthy@gmail.com" target="_blank">jay.mccarthy@gmail.com</a>> wrote: <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> I agree with Eli. first is not car and shouldn't be treated as it. car : (Cons a b) -> a first : (List a) -> a I also agree with Carl that we should deprecate grandpa's names and give nice names. I suggest "fst" and "snd" and "pair" Jay <div><div class="h5"> On Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 12:26 PM, Carl Eastlund <<a href="mailto:cce@ccs.neu.edu">cce@ccs.neu.edu</a>> wrote: > If they do the wrong thing, we should fix them, not deprecate them. We're > not LISP, let's not promote car/cdr as the primary names for list > operations. > > Carl Eastlund > > > > On Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 2:19 PM, Eli Barzilay <<a href="mailto:eli@barzilay.org">eli@barzilay.org</a>> wrote: >> >> -1, since they are different from what some people would expect them >> to do. -2 for the `empty', `cons?' etc aliases. >> >> >> An hour and a half ago, Vincent St-Amour wrote: >> > I just got tripped up, again, trying to traverse a list with `first' >> > and `rest' in a `racket/base' file. `first' and `rest' are only >> > available in `racket' and `racket/list', but not in `racket/base'. >> > >> > If we want to encourage use of `first' and `rest' over `car' and >> > `cdr' and of `racket/base' when possible (which, e.g., the style >> > guide does), I think it makes sense to provide `first' and `rest' in >> > `racket/base'. >> > >> > The attached patch implements that change. >> > >> > Does this sound reasonable? >> >> -- >> ((lambda (x) (x x)) (lambda (x) (x x))) Eli Barzilay: >> <a href="http://barzilay.org/" target="_blank">http://barzilay.org/</a> Maze is Life! >> _________________________ >> Racket Developers list: >> <a href="http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev" target="_blank">http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev</a> >> > > > _________________________ > Racket Developers list: > <a href="http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev" target="_blank">http://lists.racket-lang.org/dev</a> > </div></div>-- Jay McCarthy <<a href="mailto:jay@cs.byu.edu">jay@cs.byu.edu</a>> Assistant Professor / Brigham Young University <a href="http://faculty.cs.byu.edu/%7Ejay" target="_blank">http://faculty.cs.byu.edu/~jay</a> "The glory of God is Intelligence" - D&C 93 </blockquote></div> </div>