<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><br></div><div>Everett, thanks for your comments. I think they are right on: </div><br><div><div>On Sep 21, 2010, at 3:14 PM, Everett Morse wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: 'Lucida Grande'; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><p><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>I’m sure if you understood Racket well it would all make sense, but it does not help a beginner get better</p></span></blockquote><div><br></div><div>You may not believe this, but even someone who has programmed in Racket for 15 years and in DrRacket for 13 of them, the API docs are still quite cryptic :-) </div><br><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: 'Lucida Grande'; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><p><strong>What PHP Does</strong></p></span></blockquote></div><br><div>I like what you describe. Most or possibly all of what PHP provides should come with Racket too. </div><div><br></div><div>Here's our problem. We need manpower to get from where we are to where we should be. Here is what I see could happen: </div><div><br></div><div>1. Scribble our doc language needs some escape hatch into a wiki. I think Eli has thought about such things and others probably, too. The web server is in Racket, so that's taken care of. </div><div><br></div><div>2. The existing docs have a huge advantage over everyone else's docs. I am sure you know that. So the challenge is to integrate (1) with the existing Docs. Not a big deal and doable. </div><div><br></div><div>3. The sources, including docs, are all out there. Take them. Change the layout. Equip each function/method page with a user-wiki-thingie. Collect suggestions, appoint editors, edit the suggestions into the doc pages. </div><div><br></div><div>4. There's no need to host this internally initially. When the thing is off the ground, we integrate it and -- minus the wiki -- localize it. The wiki becomes a link to the on-line version of the docs (corresponding page) and then users who find they have something to contribute are one click away from doing so. </div><div><br></div><div>I think this is a wonderful project that non-core PLTers can run and they would make a huge contribution to the language and community that way. </div><div><br></div><div>;; --- </div><div><br></div><div><blockquote type="cite">With Racket, no short tutorial is going to work because it has a LISP (and Scheme) functional programming background that is foreign to most new programmers and many experienced ones.</blockquote><br></div><div>And that's the reason I welcome your ideas so much. It is possible to program in a Lisp-style language as if you were in C plus parens. Hey we have for/do and if and assignment statement, and we have classes. But yes, you'd lose a lot if you adopted this style. It wouldn't make sense to run things that way. But the API idea is fascinating. </div><div><br></div><div>Someone step forward and pick it up. We'd welcome it. Thanks for such a wonderful idea -- Matthias</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></body></html>