Hi Grant > I forgot to include the "pain" part of the story! > > The pain is client-visible broken features, no unit tests, terrible > incomprehensible code, no answer for "why did you type this?", no > ability to visualize the problem or the solution, and no way for > senior and junior developers to interact since there is no common > ground. It has been very, very painful. I hear your pain! It sounds like you might need some shorter-term approaches to address the worst parts of the pain, in part to further build your own credibility, prior to refashioning the entire org. into a team of high-performing htdp-wielding cyborgs. Did you have a plan B? How's that going? Personally, I am yet to get the reading-group thing happening in an organizational setting. -- Dan P.S. I've bitten the bullet and have made a start on htdp last night; I am trying hard not to skip ahead.