Hmmm, this nagare looks pretty sweet. I though the same about LeftParen too mate, RoR is already the best RoR in the world in my view :P. Time to switch paradigms for me, not to incrementally improve something. I've started on that one because, well, it does have a small hello world example that just works! :D Since my initial purpose is to just build a blog (the hello world of web apps, as the docs of LeftParen so wisely says) I've initially stayed with that, but I'm still searching. Anyway, thanks for everyone who replied, this thread was very nutritious to the brain, hope to see more of it. hugs <div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 9:02 AM, Marek Kubica <<a href="mailto:marek@xivilization.net">marek@xivilization.net</a>> wrote: <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">On Mon, 3 Nov 2008 13:45:04 -0500 <div class="Ih2E3d">"Matt Jadud" <<a href="mailto:jadudm@gmail.com">jadudm@gmail.com</a>> wrote: </div><div class="Ih2E3d">> I would honestly encourage you to simply attempt to use the language > as-is. Perhaps dive into HtDP (<a href="http://www.htdp.org" target="_blank">http://www.htdp.org</a>), or (if you're > keen) take a look at projects like LeftParen: </div>I thought about using LaftParen but decided against it. Why? Because as far as I see, it provides the next Rails-like framework. There's nothing wrong with this approach, but I'm already sick of seeing all these frameworks which port the Rails-way over. I tried running Seaside, but haven't yet managed to get it running on any Smalltalk that's not called Squeak. So I settled for Nagare (Python continuation based framework) and the PLT web server. My projects are currently on hold, though, since I don't have much time these days. As of the sweet-expressions.. while I acknowledge the importance of readable code, these sweet-expressions do not look particularly radable to me. They are like enhancing the verboseness of parens with quirky rules for the {}. And I would be really bored if all languages used the exact same syntax, as sweet-expressions try to force them on Scheme. But sure, Eduardo, go ahead and use them. Be sure also to try S-Expressions (together with DrScheme) and find out which ones you prefer. regards, Marek </blockquote></div> -- Eduardo Bellani <a href="http://www.cnxs.com.br">www.cnxs.com.br</a> "What is hateful to you, do not to your fellow men. That is the entire Law; all the rest is commentary." The Talmud